World travelers Jennifer Sumner and Barbara Castleton have each explored exotic places and don’t let not having a partner who likes to travel slow them down.
Jennifer Sumner is a retired teacher and business consultant, a wife, grandma and watercolor painter. She loves to travel internationally and she also travels around the western US in a sprinter RV. When she’s not traveling, she applies her appreciation of diversity and multicultural awareness to working for racial justice.
Barbara writes:
Nothing pleased me so much as when my 6th grade teacher complimented me on a tale of wildest fantasy. It was not the compliment that mattered but rather his “getting it”, my teacher’s understanding and appreciation for the story itself. That remains my goal, to use experience, inspiration, and words to powerfully communicate an idea or story. Yet, in the manner of a bad pun, my personal self-confidence diminished as my desire to write grew. A BS in Journalism from the University of Oregon led to a short-lived career as a copy-writer, followed by years of getting-by positions in health care. Throughout those same years, I raised an amazing child to young-womanhood and swallowed a great lump of heartache when she left home for school. I was 47, without specific goals or purpose, scrambling to remember who I was and what I wanted in that long ago life before I became a mom. One day, I recalled the Peace Corps, an organization that lets the young, the middle aged, and even the old to “give back.” Applying and being accepted into the Education Sector was a magic wand that blew stardust over my future and set a myriad of adventures in motion.
https://medium.com/@bcastleton
Transcript
Liz Sumner
I’m very pleased to have as my guests today, two women I admire greatly. Jennifer Sumner is a retired teacher and business consultant. And Barbara Castleton is a writer and ESL educator at South Seattle College. Both of them have traveled widely to exotic places, and often alone. Many people, including myself, would be timid about traveling on their own. So I asked Jennifer and Barbara to join me and talk about their experiences. So Jennifer, let’s start with you. What inspired you to travel the world on your own?
Jennifer Sumner
Well, I didn’t start out traveling alone. Because I had all kinds of concerns. I’m, in general, I’m a fussy person, I like a narrow temperature. I like to be comfortable, I’m afraid of things. But my choir was traveling to Cuba for a big concert with lots of other choirs. And as I learned more about it, I learned we would be staying in a dormitory. And it we didn’t know whether it would be safe. This was in 1999. And we knew it would be terribly hot at the time of year, we were going and there might be insects, that would bother me. And so I stewed about it. And then I decided I didn’t want to miss it. Because of all these objections that might happen. And so I went on it and everything I was concerned about happened, I didn’t sleep much. There were bugs. And I had a fabulous time. And I hold that. You know, every every time I’m considering something, I realized I can put up with that for a couple of weeks. And so it’s not that I no longer try to control it and avoid it. And so it frees me up for you know, all kinds of things. I have numerous examples of that now.
Liz Sumner
Oh, good. Okay, well, let’s let’s get Barbara’s introduction, and then I’d love to hear more about your numerous examples. So Barbara, how about you what got you started.
Barbara Castleton
My family were campers. And there were five children. And we frequently went out to go rock climbing, camping, hiking, birdwatching, etc. And each of us had our own little satchel that we had to pack ourselves. And we had our own little canvas bag into which went and invariably squished sandwich. And, you know, something else probably carrots or celery. And then we also had rock hammers and, and a compass. And I remember in Oregon, in Bear Creek getting lost, and being lost was nerve racking. I was maybe eight. And it was a certainly a problem. But it wasn’t terrifying. It was just a problem. And that we ended up being found, you know, in short order, of course, but for those brief seconds, I think I learned that, that the world is — can make you nervous, but it likely isn’t going to kill you right off the bat. Oh, um, it was just kind of an epiphany. And then I left home at the age of 18. I’m almost surprised Lizzy wasn’t there because she would have been great at that party. Pizza party. And then I left home on an airplane and I went by myself. And as Jennifer said, I have traveled with people at various times in my life, but I’ve traveled probably half the time by myself. And for people who are timid. I think that the breakdown that Jennifer gave is kind of important to realize, okay, what is it about this that’s making you nervous? She mentioned bugs. That is so funny because of course bugs are a major consideration. Not getting mugged, not getting raped. Not none of that it’s bugs. How are RATS, RATS, it’s also a biggie in my department. But I’ve discovered I can handle bugs. I can handle rats. But I think it’s a breakdown of which things it is that might make one nervous. Getting lost is one. But you know, how lost can you really be, you can be comfortable, but there will be somebody who was helpful to you. So I came to Seattle. And then since then I have traveled many places, I went to Istanbul by myself, I’ve been to Italy numerous times by myself, I’ve been to Morocco by myself, I’ve been to, I don’t know, England, by myself. And traveling by myself, it’s not as much fun as traveling with somebody. But since I’m so interested in the place I am, I’ve always found it. So exciting and beneficial just to take it all in. And so instead of being able to talk to somebody about that, I invariably write it down. So I think that for me, it is recognizing what it is that you’re going to be terrified with. And then as Jennifer is pointed out, measuring exactly how much anxiety that’s going to produce, and and deciding to do it anyway, it is very Nike esque.
Jennifer Sumner
Mm hmm.
Liz Sumner
That reminds me that Barbara, you’re a writer. So you experience the travel through writing and and when you don’t have people to converse with you can write to yourself and Jennifer, you I know you’re a painter. So is that a useful tool for you when you’re traveling alone?
Jennifer Sumner
It’s a way of really absorbing some thing of, you know, you stare at something for a couple of hours. And then it really, you know, is part of you it soaks in, but I you know, I also take snapshots,
Barbara Castleton
I can I insert, I take luminous pictures. I mean, I mean, I take huge numbers of pictures. And they say, I know the research says that sometimes you don’t experience place as much if you take pictures. And what I hope is that I’m taking pictures and experiencing the moment. It’s not like I would rather do a selfie than experience the arts fair. The pigeons aren’t as important to me as the people. And
Jennifer Sumner
Yeah, I’ve taken a lot of people pictures, because I’m fascinated by diversity. And I have a camera that has a zoom lens. So I’m not intrusive, when I do it, but when one time when I was in South America, in a market, I’m particularly tall, and I stand out, I never blend in anywhere, a family came up to me and wanted me to have to be able to take pictures of me with their kids and one after another. They were this tall lady with white hair and these smaller people that and they thought that was terribly amusing. And afterwards, I realized how objectified I felt, and how I had been objectifying all these quaint people in the places I go. So it’s really struck me to be a lot more thoughtful, and respectful about the picture taking I’ve been doing
Barbara Castleton
on that note, your relationship when you’re traveling alone, your relationship with people is different. I think that there’s a camouflage that happens when you’re traveling with people. And you don’t necessarily or I don’t necessarily notice my behaviors are or what I’m doing in exactly the same way as when I’m alone. But Jennifer brings up a good point about people. I’ve traveled so much in North Africa and Muslim countries that I am very cautious about taking pictures of people. But I remember there was a I was in India as an English Language Fellow. And I went around on a little tour of this mobile town city it was 2 million people so it wasn’t a town at all. But there was this garbage place. You know where garbage was heaped eye-height and people were going through the garbage. And this one young woman was there with the most extraordinary face. I will never forget that face. It was smooth and sweet and luminous. And I asked her if I could take her picture because it almost felt like an affront to even consider it. But she said yes. So I was able to take your picture.
Liz Sumner
Did the picture turn out? Was it? Was it able to capture any of her?
Barbara Castleton
I don’t know where it is, though. I was looking for it not too long ago, and I’ll find it. It’s India, but India was eight months. And so there’s lots of pictures.
Liz Sumner
Do you guys do a lot of research before you travel? Jennifer, why don’t I start with you?
Jennifer Sumner
You know, it’s bizarre, I always mean to, but I don’t do very much, I have a couple of tricks I do to make up for that. But part of my attraction is places I’m completely ignorant about places that have a strange name that sounds very exotic. And it’s almost like I protect my ignorance until the experience. But what I’ve often done is found a specialist there, either local tour person or something that that gives me an entry. And I can tap them for the do’s and don’ts. And I love to know what is polite? And what is, you know, respectful and what not to do. I don’t want to be offensive. But I am very curious. So I will, instead of doing a lot of research, I will find some people at the beginning of the trip, you know to have a tour with
Liz Sumner
Before I asked Barbara about research, where do you find the locals? How do you find somebody? A local tour guide?
Jennifer Sumner
Well, when I went to Bulgaria last June, I just looked on the internet. And I was lucky. I mean, it could have been a scam. But they were fabulous. And before I was going to go to a painting experience on the Black Sea, and I said, Well, I’m flying an awful long way. 10 days doesn’t seem like very much. So I hired a guy in the end, this is the only time I’ve ever done one on one guide. Instead of joining a small group. And he was fabulous. He took me from the capital city. Slowly he drove it they picked all the places we’d stay they interviewed me ahead of time, you know, what are you interested in, took me to ruins and little towns and places I could paint. And he was so thrilled that I spoke good English, because he loved to tell about these things. And some of the tourists he gets a very poor English. So he he enjoyed it too.
Liz Sumner
Barbara, tell me about what kinds of research you do or don’t do ahead of time,
Barbara Castleton
I almost you know, depends on where it is and what the circumstances are. But I do get books and I get books to find out about the big buildings or the monuments or the whatever, so that I don’t have to pay a tour guide. And they usually have more information about it. And but I don’t carry the books around. So I, I might break off the part of the book that is about that city and just carry that around. Because I’m I have a backpack or purse or whatever it is if I have I don’t want seven pounds of stuff in there. What I most often do is find out where there are walks, planned walks. And I started out doing this in 1991 in Venice, Venice walks and there would like book of about five walks. They took you to every part of the city and they talk to you about every point of interest. Because I don’t I don’t tend to hang where the tourists are not that I have anything for us. Except that particularly in a place like Venice. It’s like you know, a cruise vomitus you know, they just going off of these cruise ships and you want to go that’s where they’re going to be today. No, I’m not going there. I’m going someplace else. So in Istanbul, I’ve done walks in, in Venice and in Milan and in Rome. I’ve done walks in Bangkok, although traffic was a little bit of a problem there. And certainly I haven’t done walks in Morocco because in Morocco, I just walk everywhere. So it’s a different situation. But that’s I do like to have some research although now that I have a place in Italy. I find myself going to places that I have just seen On a map, and discovering whatever it is, and that’s proven to be so much fun. I thoroughly enjoy it. So what whatever way feels good if that gives person a level of comfort to have knowledge about something, if it gives them comfort to think that they’re going to be meeting, a tour guide, if anything that works for them, I think should be what they choose to do.
Liz Sumner
And what both of you what oh, excuse me, Jennifer, you wanted to say something before
Jennifer Sumner
you had one, I had one more thing I just remembered that I do, which is sort of a shortcut, is I get ads for expensive tours, because I have done some tours. And so I’ll look at them in you know, in a strange place. And I’ll find out where they go. And what they what they think is wonderful in their advertising. And then I’ll just do that I’ll all go to the places that sound wonderful in their ads.
Liz Sumner
That’s great. So why —
Jennifer Sumner
I do make a distinction places where I speak the language and where I don’t. I have little bits of lots of languages, and I’m much more confident. If I can talk to people in their language, then I don’t have to just stay in, in tourist places where they speak English.
Liz Sumner
What languages do you have?
Jennifer Sumner
Well, I have adequate, French and German and I can now speak New Zealand and I when I’m traveling I I learned how to say polite things and count. You know, I have to brush up on it wherever I go.
Liz Sumner
You also have some very good Spanish too, right?
Jennifer Sumner
Oh, that’s right. bad memory.
Liz Sumner
Barbara, how about you? What languages do you you rely on?
Barbara Castleton
Um, well, I studied French and German and Spanish, but I’m most fluent in Arabic. And now as you know, I’m learning Italian. One of the things about four, you know, going forward in a foreign language is you have to be willing to look stupid. And, and I do on a regular basis. But that never stops me. I talked about this all the time. Because they’re already mistakes. And I said, Oh, sweetie, you just wouldn’t get very far across Rome if you were worried about making mistakes, because it stops you you know that concern? It stops, right. So I just I absolutely agree. I used to have dictionaries with me. But now I have Google Translate alhamdulillah. And I’m really, because it gives you the pronunciation as well as the phrasing. So I may not know what I’m saying. But it it seems to work well. Yeah.
Jennifer Sumner
Yeah, that’s that do it being willing to be stupid, I figure I’m entertaining. My horrible pronunciation and silly construction. And there’s a few. There’s a few structures that I will memorize in any language, where I will learn how to say, Where is and do Do you have a few of those. And then you just need a list of net, you can take your little dictionary and find the noun you’re looking for. But I will actually learn a few of these very useful phrases.
Barbara Castleton
My mother. My mother took French in high school. And she didn’t get to France for another. Oh, I don’t know, 40 years. But she wanted to practice some of her French and that she hadn’t practiced in 40 years. So she’s there with my dad and she’s, she decides to ask a French person and she goes up to the French person. And she says, ou est le Louvre. And the person points to this huge building right behind her. He said that’s the Louvre.
Jennifer Sumner
In English.
Barbara Castleton
Yeah, but it was even standing in front of it. It was really fun. That’s exactly what’s supposed to happen. I love it. I think that’s one of the reasons I left is because you get to experience this is a form of play for me. You know? It really it really takes Is that part of my character that I get to mess around with languages? And it’s like finger painting, it’s just like doesn’t matter. Yeah. So.
Liz Sumner
So what? What resources would you recommend for somebody who is thinking of traveling by themselves for the first time, Jennifer,
Jennifer Sumner
wow, I haven’t a clue. This this by yourself phrase, you make it sound as though it’s very either or, and I don’t think it is, I think it’s very graded. For example, if you went on a trip with a group that you felt very comfortable with, and then you went off on a walk one afternoon, by yourself that could feel wonderfully adventurous. While good, you know, protect it, I think it’s, it’s, it’s like any other fear, you do your baby steps out of it, you don’t plunge. And so you might do your, your first, you know, solo in a place that you’re pretty well acquainted with, or a town you have visited before, or I don’t think it’s a, it makes sense to me to do it as a, you know, a big jump off a cliff thing. But I do think you could plan your baby steps so that you had that little through. This isn’t this is into the unknown. Like, one time I went, I always need to go to the bathroom more than everybody else. And the tour guide I was with was very concerned that there wasn’t a suitable bathroom for me that all there was was what the locals use, which was like a hole in the ground. And I went and use this hole in the ground in the market that that stunk. And that was very adventurous. Even though I was traveling with a group, and I think you can play the edge of your concerns and get the thrill of being courageous and have the excitement of it without the terror.
Liz Sumner
Brilliant. I love that. Thanks very much. And Barbara, any resources that you would recommend, or advice for first
Barbara Castleton
couple things that I wanted to say one is I LIVED with a hole in the ground. But but there was a time when I was traveling in Morocco, all by myself, I was a Peace Corps volunteer, I was trying to get to my friend’s village and the village was six miles from the nearest main road. And she said don’t get there after dark because everything is closed at the on the main road, everything is closed, and there won’t be any taxis to bring you in. And of course, I got there in the dark. And I got off the bus and it was very dark. The bus driver was concerned because obviously I wasn’t a Moroccan. And he said, you know, we’re speaking in Arabic. And he says, madam, you really need to go down to the next town of columnist and go to the hotel, they might have a room where you can stay and then in the morning you can get you can get a taxi in and looking around this absolutely deserted crossroads, which shuttered little shops, and the only people who were there were men Not that I’ve ever been afraid of Moroccan men. But it just seemed prudent to get back on the bus and and go to thomist where there was no room. But there was a table I could sit at. And I decided I would lay my head down and sit there until a waiter gave me his room. Hmm. And that was very nice with a lock on the inside. And the only problem was it was carpeted in cartons broken down cartons and under the curtains, cartons on the floor. You could hear the scratching sound which was probably either mice or scorpions, which meant that I spent the entire night on the bed wide awake. And really worried for my bladder. This is all coming down to my bladder Jennifer.
Jennifer Sumner
Yeah, I can relate.
Barbara Castleton
I went out I had not been to the bathroom since I left home at eight that morning and now it’s 2am Oh The bathroom, the hole in the ground was so disgusting that I didn’t. I just said, No, I’m sorry, I can’t do that. I’ll just call on my my physiognomy to hold me up for another few hours. And it did. And I and I went on, but I’ve done the hole in the floor, as in some times that
Jennifer Sumner
that would be worth a blog in itself. standards from one to 10, I got a whole new set of standards from zero down to a minus 10. Exactly, exactly.
Barbara Castleton
Resources, one T Mobile, I discovered T Mobile. And in terms of international travel, just recently for my trip to Italy in March of that it is brilliant because I don’t have to get a different phone or do anything. T Mobile is German. And it works. It works. It costs me 20 cents a minute. And what that does is it makes you feel like okay, I have a resource, I have something I can do. I don’t have a computer, but I could actually call home and they could check on something if I’m really, really lost. So that was one thing.
Liz Sumner
Let me just so you’re saying, Did you got an Italian phone in this with T Mobile? Or is it a Seattle phone?
Barbara Castleton
It’s my it’s my Seattle phone. And it works just like, I mean, I can use it all over Italy. Oh, I can everywhere. And I don’t have to worry about minutes. It’s unlimited this, it’s unlimited that. And so that eased my travel this trip enormously. The other thing about this is that Jennifer and I are well traveled. And we’ve been well traveled for a great many years, but I had the opportunity to view somebody who was not well traveled. And so I want to preface this resource based on that person’s experience and everybody will be different. But I saw travel from the eyes of a of a virgin, if you will. And my son in law came with my daughter, too. He wasn’t my son in law, then to Venice, a few years ago. And he was like, blown away by oh my god, this is completely different. It was it was just like google eyed and excited, but also intimidated. and couldn’t find his excitement. Because the the variations, the differences, the whole culture, the language, the streets, the lack of cars, everything was completely and utterly different than this boy from Brooklyn. I mean, so he was in a state of awe and anxiety, although he was perfectly polite to be around and everything, but you could see this happening. And on day two, we handed him a map. And he was in Brooklyn, he was just fun. From that second on, he was he was at home and willing to put up with the differences. It made such a difference. It was like a “banky” you know, if you’re a 2-year-old– it was like, Oh, I’m because he’s been he’s grown up with maps. So I think that whatever it is that it’s comfortable for you when you’re living in your own environment, if you’re if you like to do road trips or hikes or whatever that is, maybe take a similar resource with you map or as I do walks, you know, so that you one level of comfort that might otherwise be missing so that’s what I would say about that having just recently observed him
Jennifer Sumner
I think that’s brilliant to say what is the person’s what is that a person’s blankie? Yeah, I think that’s a great idea. For me it’s the phrases is having the certain phrases because I know I can bumble through a conversation and get what I need. If I have my certain phrases, so that’s very insightful. Barbara
Liz Sumner
You guys are awesome. I need to close up but is there anything else you’d like to add before we we close this event? I I’m definitely going to ask you both back for future episodes. But what would you like to say in closing today?
Barbara Castleton
I think it My My thing is that however many lives we may have. This is the only one we’re going to remember. And I think that my motto is to buy the ticket and go, and I’ve had I’ve had so many positive experiences that the few niggling irritations or things that didn’t work out quite right are, you know, just buried against all of these amazing personal experiences with human beings who are just willing to chat with you share with you, give you whatever you need. And the that does strangeness is that sometimes make it awkward for a few seconds. So yeah, buy the ticket and go. Excellent.
Liz Sumner
Jennifer,
Jennifer Sumner
I also travel alone a lot in an RV in the United States. And I learned a very big lesson there that applies to all travel is that every I had this really old van for a long time. And it was always every single trip, it had a major breakdown. And again, instead of being avoiding something, because you’re afraid it will happen, assume it will, and that you will meet meet wonderful people who will help you and that you’ve got what it takes to cope with it. And if you’re content with yourself, you will deal fine with all these bizarre things that happen.
Liz Sumner
Oh, that’s so true. That is I totally concur with the wonderful people who will help you.
Jennifer Sumner
Don’t put your energy into protecting yourself. Just put your energy into believing in yourself.
Liz Sumner
Oh, that’s great. I’d like to close with that. That sounds brilliant. And I want to thank my guests, Jennifer Sumner and Barbara Castleton. I’m going to put some links in the podcast notes so you can find out more about them. And I invite listeners to write in and let me know what you’ve always wanted to do but were hesitant to try and who inspired you. I’m Liz Sumner, reminding you to be bold. Thanks for listening.
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