In late 2017, with no previous experience in audio-making or storytelling, Lori Mortimer simply decided it would be a good idea to start a podcast. Then she learned how hard it was. “Since then, I’ve studied the art and craft of podcasting, audio editing, interviewing, nonfiction storytelling, sound design, and podcast marketing. Through more classes and workshops than I can count, and the support found in online and in-person audio communities, I’ve stitched together the basic set of skills needed to get a show off the ground. It’s taken a village to get me to the point where I consider myself a creator and podcaster. It’s been a life-changing and affirming experience for me, which I am thankful to have had the privilege of experiencing.”
Twitter & Instagram @mementospodcast
REMARKS
I have met some wise, wonderful, and generous people in the podcasting space and today’s guest is a delightful example.
Regular listeners will notice how often the topic of a supportive community comes up in my conversations with guests. Just about everyone mentions that when they were ready to take a step toward their dream others were there to help them along the way.
Lori and I get together regularly to chat about our love of audio, our goals and frustrations, and share the highs and lows that only a fellow podcaster can appreciate.
Our shows have very different styles. I Always Wanted To is a straight interview while Lori’s podcast, Mementos, is a first-person narrative with rich sound design to set the scene.
We really like each other’s work and suspect that our listeners will as well, so we decided to showcase one another. Lori created an episode about a keepsake of mine entitled Liz’s Nonni that talks about my move to Italy. The link is in the show notes. And I interviewed Lori to find out her backstory and how she became a podcaster.
Here’s the interview.
TRANSCRIPT
Liz Sumner
My guest today is Lori Mortimer. Lori is the creator of Mementos, a beautifully produced podcast about the emotional backstories to the objects we keep. Welcome, Lori.
Lori Mortimer
Thank you, glad to be here.
Liz Sumner
So first of all, tell me how you discovered podcasts as a thing.
Lori Mortimer
You know, I think it probably came out of listening to NPR and going on the road to see, take our kids to see their grandparents. We live in Massachusetts and the grandparents lived in New Jersey. And so we’d go several times a year on these five or six hour car rides and, you know, needed entertainment for the car. And so we would listen to Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me and Car Talk, you know, with the kids, and they love both of those shows. So that was I think, probably where it started was converting me from listening to shows on the radio, that I already listened to episodes that had been made available as podcasts. So things like Fresh Air. And like those those fun shows that I mentioned,
Liz Sumner
And then how did you go from listener to would be maker,
Lori Mortimer
That was an interesting journey. So a few things came together at the same time one, which was I discovered, and I don’t know how, but I discovered that there’s a place in Boston called the Podcast Garage. And it’s a maker space that is operated by PRX, which is a public radio exchange, a company here that works in public radio, and podcasting now, too. And they created this space where they could have a community space for people who wanted to learn about making podcasts and make them so they have a studio space and a gathering space. I don’t know how I found out about them, but they came across my radar. And I was like, Oh, that would be kind of interesting to just take a couple of classes there.
So that was in 2017-Ish. And then in 2017, also, my mother passed away. And it was somewhat sudden, she had been ill, but we thought she was going to be good for like the next 10 years. And then she had a recurrence of her cancer, and she passed away kind of quickly. So I spent the summer of 2017 with her and then starting to go through all of her possessions. And so in going through her entire house, there was one object that I found out in the garage, buried in a back corner underneath her staircase up to her garage, attic. That just kind of blew me away because it was something I didn’t know she had. And that she had kept for over 60 years and had moved it from when she was a kid to when she was married to my dad and then out of that house and into the house that she lived in after my dad passed away. So I just sort of all came together of I have really loved to tell this story. And then also had this outlet to learn how to do it in the audio format.
Liz Sumner
So you had dabbled, you had explored what it takes to make a podcast and then had this idea for a podcast? Did you ever think of other concepts before? Or did was it just the the your mother’s memento and the and you put them together like chocolate and peanut butter?
Lori Mortimer
It was definitely a little chocolate and peanut butter. But you know, I dabbled with some almonds, maybe and some coconut as well. Because in the beginning, I think I took my first class, it’s called Is This Thing On at the Podcast Garage. I think I took that after my mother passed away when I came back from New Jersey after being there for a couple of months. So I think, yeah, if I recall correctly, I didn’t settle on the idea for the show until early 2018.
I kind of was just starting to explore some things for me. And one of the other things that happened was after my mother passed away, I stayed down in New Jersey for like a month and a half and then came back to go back to work. And then I realized I was having a lot of difficulty processing at all and dealing with her estate and dealing with the house and trying to get it sold and all those things. So I left my full time job. I believe I took my first podcast class after I’d already left my job. It was right around that time where I suddenly said okay, you know, I have some bandwidth now to take this class at night and see what else there is going on down there.
Liz Sumner
So you found the item in your mother’s garage, and you and so what what was the path and how am I time did it take to turn that into the beginnings of Mementos?
Lori Mortimer
That’s a good question. So back in 2018, the the you know, the calendar year after she passed was the year I really started working in earnest on this is going to be my idea. For the show. Originally, my idea was going to be called Finders Keepers. That the idea that people finding things like I had found something that it was unexpected and talking about it, but I shifted it over to a different concept slightly. So it took really from I would say, like, early 2018. For that idea, that specific idea, until the fall of 2019.
To get the first episode out, I was really intentional about not trying to create it before I understood more about what I was doing. I you know, one of the one, there are a couple of theories about how to go about something like this, and one is just throw it out there and learn as you go. And what you put out, you put out and you’ll just keep learning, and it’ll get better. And you’ll go back and listen to those early episodes. And you’ll say, Oh, I’ve improved so much and all that, which I think is true of anybody at any point that you start something. But I was really coming into it as I didn’t know anything about audio production. I hadn’t been like, even though I was an English major, I hadn’t been somebody who did a lot of my own writing, creative writing, per se, I had done some, like industry related writing nonfiction, but not tell me a good story kind of writing. And so I really felt like I needed to build up my chops, both on the audio side and understanding how to make an audio piece. And then also just in general on storytelling, and how to weave a tale. Also thirdly on on how to build a show a concept for a show, and what that show would look like.
Even just coming up with a tagline for it, whatever one of the instrumental short periods of time was I went to the Werkit I went to work it which is a conference that’s held in New York one year, and then LA the next, for women and non binary podcasters. I had a car ride down, I drove down I was like the mom with a car full of people drove down to Brooklyn, and had Palace Shaw, who at the time worked at PRX. And Ma’ayan Plaut, and Galen Beebe, and myself, we all drove down to to New York, from Boston for the show, and we just talked so much on that car ride about everybody’s stuff, and what you know, and everybody’s life, you know, so we had to, you know, for four and a half hour rides to talk to each other, plus the conference in between.
And it was really, that, that stretch of days, where I really helped solidify the idea for the show was having nice in depth conversations with people who really gave me some great things to think about. And I actually came up with a tagline for the show, then.
Liz Sumner
Tell us what your tagline is,
Lori Mortimer
The tagline is, “Sometimes what you keep is on the inside.”
Liz Sumner
That’s great.
Lori Mortimer
So the podcast really does focus on the object a little bit, but what it means to the person who owns it, for the majority of every episode, you know, they tell a story behind it, how they came to get it, what it means to them. And it’s really about them reflecting on their life or a relationship in their life through this object that they keep. So it’s not, you know, Antiques Roadshow, where we want to know, the entire provenance of an object and its historical interest and all that. Nope, it’s all about those little personal stories that turn out to have a lot of depth to them. And that they resonate with people you know, I think any given object is very personal to the person who, who keeps it and who’s telling their story. But we can all relate to the idea behind a memento we can all relate to how a memento could really remind us of somebody who was important in our lives or to an important time in our own lives. doesn’t always have to be about another person or another relationship.
So but yeah, like that particular work it trip was very instrumental in me kind of solidifying a lot of the ideas but it still took me is that I’m trying to think what your I think that was 2018 So it was fall of 2019 Like, like another year before I got the first episode out so really, I don’t move that quickly.
Liz Sumner
They’re worth waiting for your your episodes are, are so beautifully crafted, we have a very different style in how we build it and what they sound like so so tell me some of the choices that you made to to make Mementos, sound the way it does?
Lori Mortimer
That’s a great question. This is another kind of result of the community of people, you know, like the work at trip where, you know, had a small community in the car, but they’re all they’re all from the Boston area audio community was I attended an event at the Podcast Garage. That was sort of like a speed dating event. They had mentors from the field, who were all like, lined up in a, like a snake shaped set of chairs, and they lined up chairs across from them. And we just, and those of us who were makers and who wanted to talk to people from the industry about our ideas came and we started in a chair, and you had I think we had three minutes with each person. And you literally talk to every single one of those mentors over the course of I don’t know, two hours. And one of the mentors who was there was Ariana Martinez. And their feedback was that they like the concept and all that, but their feedback was “think more art than journalism.”
Liz Sumner
Ooh, nice. Yeah, that’s, that’s it. That’s the difference.
Lori Mortimer
And I’ve never forgotten that. That’s, right. Yes, exactly. That one sentence has stuck with me. And so I was like, Ah, okay, I get it. And that helped me see that it wasn’t going to be like an interview show. Right? It was going to be a storytelling show. Somebody tell me a story about this object and what it means to you. And so that kind of influenced the style of show.
And then over the last couple of years, I’ve really tried to develop an ear for sound design on top of that, you know, and try to make the sound of the show kind of enhance what the person is telling us about this object. Again, this is why, for me the slow burn, and the slow development of the show has been really important, because I do feel like I have what now 5, 6 episodes out over the summer since 2019. And it’s come in spurts. But I feel like having the slow burn has allowed me to figure out the identity of the show so that these episodes don’t sound like different shows. Even though they’re coming out far apart. They feel like they’re part of the same show.
Liz Sumner
That is really true. They really do. They are part of a whole. And it’s different people and talking about all kinds of different things. But you can absolutely recognize that it’s all part of the same show. You have succeeded in that as well.
Lori Mortimer
Right, thanks. So yeah, so I have that luxury as just an independent podcaster. Right. It’s a it’s a personal project at the moment. And, and yeah, so having a good strong identity for the show and what what the episodes would be like was was part of the plan. And I think some of that comes from my age, you know, I’m not young, I’m not old. I’m definitely absolutely middle-aged. And I think when I started working on it, I didn’t want to rush it because I don’t know, I don’t know if it’s really age or not. But I sort of felt like I didn’t want to put out something that a year later, I would cringe over. You know, at this stage of my life, I felt like I do have a professional identity.
Even though you know, my career has been sort of like a set cobbled together, I still feel felt like, I wanted it to be as good as I could make it from the beginning. And even though I knew I would still be new when I was doing it. I still really wanted it. I didn’t want to put it out there before I liked it. You know, that was kind of I guess maybe it’s a way of saying is like would future Lori go back and listen and still like it, maybe find things that she would change. Now, of course we all do that. But would she still say yeah, that was definitely worth putting out there. So I’m not like a perfectionist in other areas of my life or anything, but I feel sort of weirdly perfectionist about the show. I don’t know. It’s very bizarre.
BREAK
Liz Sumner
But you made a choice, fairly recently to to do it full time. Is that am I right? Yeah. Tell me about that process.
Lori Mortimer
In 2019 I got the first two episodes out and I had some interviews recorded for additional episodes. And then it was fall of 2019. So I got the first two episodes out in October and I went to the Third Coast Conference and then I went to the sound education conference back home. And then you know, the holidays hit. And then early 2020 hit and my father in law passed away suddenly. Then COVID within a month of his passing. We were all home because of COVID and we were also trying to assist my mother in law at the time. And so there was just no emotional space to make the show never mind time. And for me the show is I need emotional space for it in my own head to tap into what the story that these folks are telling and to really feel what they’re trying to express through their story.
So I had a job, like I said, I was in, I was in the production department of a textbook publishers and I had a team of six people. And it was it’s a logistical job. It’s managing people who are managing a lot of projects themselves. And that kind of job is so so different from making the show. It’s a logistical job. It’s an administrative thinking. It’s constantly thinking about details and schedules and projects and pressure, and oh, and so I already knew that I, I loved my boss, and I really loved my colleagues and I had no problems at all with my company. I liked my company a lot. All of that was really good. It just wasn’t the right job for me anymore. And so I knew I needed to make a change. I just wasn’t sure what that was going to be. But at some point, when things kind of settled down, I was going to make a change.
Then last fall of 2020, I had an opportunity to have a one on one consultation with Alex Sujong Laughlin. She was doing a she was doing a fundraiser. And she and I met, it was the Monday or Tuesday of Thanksgiving week. So before Thanksgiving, we we had a 30- minute conversation, she listened to the two episodes that I had out. And what I wanted at the time was to just get some feedback on how it was going. And I knew I wanted to keep moving forward. And Alex is somebody who works in the field. And she had been an instructor and one of the classes one of the many classes I took she had been an instructor on.
So we had our conversation. And one of the first thing she said on the call was, you know, I was trying to figure out where you worked. And you don’t work in audio, do you? And I was like, No, I work for a textbook publisher. And she’s like, I listened to your episodes. And I had no idea that you weren’t already a producer, I thought you were a producer. And this was your side project. And when she said that, I just still I’m getting goosebumps now even thinking about it. Like when she said that I thought, oh my god, I tricked her. You know, like, she didn’t know that I was a complete noob for those two episodes. And that just gave me this huge burst of confidence on that call of like, oh, I can really do this, right. And so we we talked for the rest of the half hour about the show and some ideas. But she said she loved it. You know, she loved the show. And she was looking forward to more episodes and all of that. And I literally clicked off of that Zoom call, and went upstairs to my husband’s home office. And I was like, We need to talk right now.
Lori Mortimer
I was just so excited. I said, I think I think I need to leave my job, so that I can focus on this podcast next year. And you know, we talked about it over the holiday week and stuff. And he agreed, like, Yeah, let’s try that. Because she just gave me that extra boost to think that if I just had the time, if I just had the time I can make this work. So I did, I gave my notice. And I finished up at the end of 2020. And I really started working in earnest on the show, like in February, early March.
You know, this goes back to my English major days, I went back to all the notes I’d taken in all these training classes I’d done over the previous three, almost four years. And I just started hand rewriting some of the notes, I just got a new notebook. And I just started kind of going let me look at all the stuff I’ve learned about interviewing and put it all in one place. And let me look at all the stuff I learned about sound design, and put it in one place. And for me, sitting down in my comfy chair in the living room with a cup of tea and a notebook and not my laptop, not no electronics, was like that separation from I needed that space before I dove into the show. I needed to slow it down. Re immerse myself in the language of podcasting and audio making and storytelling, gather my thoughts and then get started. And that’s what I did.
Liz Sumner
I acknowledge you for hearing that this is a life changing moment. And I’ve got it I’ve got what it takes. I need to to make the decisions to change my life to go forward and do this thing that I love that not everybody hears that and acts on it. So good for you.
Lori Mortimer
Yeah. And you know, I also need to acknowledge that there’s an enormous amount of privilege that comes with being able to make that decision, right, like going up and chatting with my husband and knowing that we didn’t need my income to live on, at that time is a huge benefit that a lot of people just don’t have, they have to do these kinds of projects on the side. So I recognize that, you know, I’m very lucky to be able to, to do that and have a spouse who’s been so supportive of me while he grinds away at his job. While I’m down here going, listen to this cool sound effect I just made, you know. Check it out, or, you know, I tweaked this episode for the 20th time, did you hear I took that breath out, you know, like, you know,
Liz Sumner
okay, so then, what do you hate about the whole podcasting process? — if anything.
Lori Mortimer
I think, well, I like the making a lot. I love the making. But you know, I do get into this phase with every single episode where I think it’s horrible. And I’m not going to be able to figure out the story. And it sucks. And it’s a mess. And my husband listens to this every time. And so does Galen Beebe, who who’s been my editor, this season, I’d be like, throw it over the wall. So that that part is hard for me. And I think that’s, I think that’s part of trying to create something that’s, you know, more art than journalism, maybe it happens for other folks, too, where you just never sure if this episode is coming out, right, because you’re just too close to it for a while. So that part’s hard for me.
But I think the hardest part for me is, is is the other side of making the podcast, which is promoting it and building an audience, and the slow slow drag of figuring out how to get it in front of people so that they hear it and become subscribers and want to listen to all of your episodes. And so that that part is really hard. I find social media exhausting, you know, it’s just so draining, and also hasn’t been hugely beneficial on that front, either. So, you know, struggling to figure out how to reach people who would be my natural audience for the show, you know, how do I find them and put my show in front of them, so that they make it a part of their listening habits, and maybe convert some people who don’t really listen to podcasts to become podcast listeners.
I do think my show would resonate with folks who are a little bit older and have like, are going through some of that almost nostalgia in their own lives. But they tend to not listen to as many podcasts so finding them and reaching out to them and turning them into listeners is a huge challenge, which I haven’t even begun to address. So. So for me the the other part of it, you know, which I think is true of like anybody, they say even if like you’re an author, or a freelance writer that 50% of your job is that work and the other 50% is marketing, you know, so that’s the 50% that doesn’t really that I and I also know, it’s not my strength. So I know that it’s harder for me, it’s more effort on the marketing side of things.
Liz Sumner
And I fear that’s true for anybody who creates something, and it might be more than 50% marketing.
Lori Mortimer
Right . Well, it’s the genius behind the idea of like Patreon, right? Is that yeah, if you have supporters, that they can help pay for your, you know, your show, because it’s not free to make a show. There are expenses around it, you know, especially if you want it to be high quality show cost money, it’s you know, not only am I not working this year, I’m spending money on the show, as well, you know, out of pocket expenses, which are all worth it all worth it. But I don’t know how long that’s sustainable either. So you know, that’s why we kind of said, like, let’s try it for a year and see and get the show built. And then we’ll have my show and have a portfolio of work. And maybe there’s a way to find a sponsor or something like that going into another season.
Liz Sumner
Yeah. So tell me what, what’s your one- and five-year big dream?
Lori Mortimer
I would say I would hope that within one year, I would find a way to at least cover my costs for the show that what I’m spending out of pocket to help make it what it is. I can recoup through building an audience and either having a Patreon or finding a sponsor who wants to be aligned with this show because of it matches what it is that their business is about or something like that. And then five years I would say I would love to still be making the show and have a have a bigger back catalogue. I’d like to get more than five or six episodes out in a year you know maybe one a month is a right is the right pace for me. Nocturne, the podcast. I don’t know if you know that one Nocturne is a monthly show, and so beautifully sound design show stories of the night. It’s very good. That’s once a month. So that seems doable. But I would also like to see if I can make this a career change, right? Can I turn my this 2021 work into a new career, would somebody hire me to work on their show or their shows? After I’ve made the show? So that’s, you know, so maybe in five years, I’m earning a living, maybe sooner than five. But at the end of five years, the show has got a pretty good back catalogue. And I’m also working in the field, something like that.
Liz Sumner
When you picture yourself working in the field, are you also still making Mementos or the next project?
Lori Mortimer
Yeah, maybe the next project. Like I don’t know how long the Mementos sustainable. Like, I feel like if I did it for five years, and I got 12 episodes out a year or something like that, I feel like that’s a pretty good catalog for the concept of the show. Yeah, but maybe it would be, you know, one of the things about the more people hear about it, the more people say to me, Oh, I have this thing, you know, that I could talk about on your show, or oh, it reminded me of this, that I keep, you know, so maybe it’s maybe it’s an evergreen show that could go on forever, too. I’m not really sure. It’s hard to know, I was gonna say I do sometimes get, I don’t wanna say bored easily, but distracted by other things. So I could see, potentially shifting gears and getting really into something else deeply. Another show, right, come up with that other show concept and get into that really deeply for a while I could see that happening at the end, you know, somewhere between now and five years from now, that’s possible, too.
Liz Sumner
Are you mentoring anyone?
Lori Mortimer
I wouldn’t say so. No, I mean, I have a biweekly phone call with another small group of podcasters, where we support one another, but I don’t know that we mentor one another. Yeah. Although I would say I do feel like, you know, a couple of years in now. And with these episodes under my belt, if there was a brand new person who wanted to get started, I could, I could help them out. But I still don’t feel like I’m mentor ready for the most part idea sharing ready? And suggestion ready. You know, here’s what worked for me, or here’s what I tried, it didn’t work. But mentor sort of implies a little bit more sage knowledge and advice pass along.
Liz Sumner
But you would be open to people contacting you if somebody listening wants your style of podcasting, you know, you would be happy to receive their query.
Lori Mortimer
100%. I absolutely love to talk about podcasting. And, you know, share the enthusiasm for it and share, you know, ideas that can help people because sometimes in the very beginning, you just don’t know what you don’t know. And so helping people avoid some, either some early pitfalls or spinning their wheels, saving people some time. Yeah, I can do that.
One thing I will say– I was thinking about this last night is like, in terms of things I would change. I don’t know, I don’t think I would change a whole lot about the trajectory of working on the show. I think that even though 2020 was such a hard year in so many ways that having that time. I think my episodes are better for having waited until I was ready to leave the other career and really focus on the show. And that had I tried to squeeze out some episodes in 2020 just to get them out there. I know for sure there’s no way they would be as good as they are right now. And I really wanted them to be strong.
So there’s that but I do think one thing I would change overall if I could go back in time is that I would have made more time for the side of myself when I was younger. Like I never thought of myself as a creative person. ever really, you know, like I’ve you know, been around very creative people, including my husband, my whole life and didn’t see myself that way at all. And the podcast has allowed me to see myself as a creative person in a you know, at all and to see myself in a very different light and I think that current Lori would say to younger Lori, nurture that side of yourself. Give yourself some space to play around with things and try things and dedicate some time to that for yourself. That’s the thing, I think, I won’t say I’ve wasted years or anything like that. But I, it’s certainly a missed opportunity to have been more involved in creative things that, you know, could have brought me joy, you know, and pleasure the way that this is doing so, and also to just know myself a little bit differently. So yeah,
Liz Sumner
What would you like to say, in conclusion,
Lori Mortimer
I guess I would like to say, I definitely recognize the opportunity that I have to make this kind of a change. For, you know, doing a project that has been that I’ve been calling a passion project, and trying to turn it into a career change project, that I have this opportunity that a lot of people don’t have, and I’m, you know, so appreciative that I do have it. And that, you know, the biggest recommendation I can make for anybody is that if they want to try something like this, is to find a community of people who are also doing that thing that you’re really interested in doing. Because I wouldn’t be anywhere without the local Boston audio community, and the larger, you know, audio community, and it’s even worldwide, I mean, there’s just people all over the world who have come to conferences that I’ve been at. And, you know, it is a really wonderful, supportive community of people who want more audio stories in the world. And so for whatever your passion is, there is also going to be a community who wants more of that thing in the world. And it just bolsters you so much, to have those people in your life, even if it’s all, you know, online communication, it’s still there. And it’s invaluable, just absolutely invaluable.
Liz Sumner
I couldn’t agree more. I have certainly found that to be true in the podcast industry. I bet it’s true in other creative pursuits, as well as that people who might feel afraid to go out there and meet other people who are doing the work or who are experts at it. I bet there are people who love bringing newbies along and lifting them up and helping others do what they themselves love.
Lori Mortimer
100%, you know, for any, and I think that’s one of the benefits of the online communication that we have available to us now. All these different channels, as exhausting as they can be. And as you know, there are other pitfalls to them, of course, as well. well documented, that there’s a group of people who have a similar interest out there for you, whatever it is definitely out there.
Liz Sumner
I thank you so much for doing this. My thanks to Lori Mortimer. You can find out more about Mementos and Lori in the show notes. I invite everyone to write and tell me what you’ve always wanted to try. I’m Liz Sumner, reminding you to be bold, and thanks for listening
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