Be A Fashion Designer

Hi Everyone. Because this is audio I could pretend that I’m always dressed impeccably and everyone admires my flair for fashion. Italians would call me a bella figura.  Full disclosure, this is not the case. I care more for comfort than for style. So when I invited my guest, Nic Hyl, to talk about fashion design I was truly ignorant at the start, and absolutely fascinated to learn about the process. Nic has a combination of creativity, business savvy, and sensitivity to client’s needs that impressed me greatly. She recognized that while school could teach her the art of design she needed real world experience to take her designs to the masses. I really loved hearing her explain how a garment goes from idea in her head to the customer’s closet. 

 

And the other element that really struck me in our conversation was how Nic Hyl Clothing recognizes the tender feelings women have about their bodies when they put on a bathing suit. I purposely shared this episode at this time of year when many of us are resolving to eat better and exercise more. Nic’s philosophy of helping women love themselves as they are in the skin they’re in is a breath of fresh air. I hope you agree.

Here’s the interview.

TRANSCRIPT

Nic Hyl  

This is not right. Like it can’t be normal, that everybody that I’m helping in a fitting room. When I say everyone I mean 100% of the people that I am helping in the fitting room have some sort of body dysmorphia negative self talk negative opinion about something on their body.

Liz Sumner  

Hi, everyone. I’m Liz Sumner. And this is I always wanted to the podcast where I interview people who are doing things that others long to do. What have you always wanted to try?

Liz Sumner  

Hi, everyone. Because this is audio I could pretend that I’m always dressed impeccably, and everyone admires my flair for fashion. Italians would call me a bella figura. Full disclosure. This is not the case. I care more for comfort than for style. So when I invited my guest Nic Hyl to talk about fashion design, I was truly ignorant at the start, and absolutely fascinated to learn about the process. Nic has a combination of creativity, business savvy, and sensitivity to client’s needs that impressed me greatly. She recognized that while school could teach her the art of design, she needed real world experience to take her designs to the masses. 

I really loved hearing her explain how a garment goes from idea in her head to the customer’s closet. And the other element that really struck me in our conversation was how Nic Hyl clothing recognizes the tender feelings women have about their bodies when they put on a bathing suit. I purposely shared this episode at this time of year when many of us are resolving to eat better and exercise more. Nic’s philosophy of helping women love themselves as they are in the skin they’re in is a breath of fresh air. I hope you agree. Here’s the interview. 

Liz Sumner  

My guest today is Nic Hyl. She’s the founder and creative director of New York’s award winning swimwear clothing and activewear brand, Nic Hyl clothing. Nic uses her brand to help women love themselves as they are in the skin. They’re in. Welcome, Nic.

Nic Hyl  

Thank you so much for having me, Liz.

Liz Sumner  

So tell me how you got interested in fashion design.

Nic Hyl  

I’ve always loved clothes, I can’t remember, like, you know, so many little girls and young women and young boys and just growing up. I’ve always just loved clothes. And I think it started with like paper dolls. I don’t know if anyone ever had paper dolls. But I used to have like this really cool collection of paper dolls that had these really awesome little outfits. And I think that’s probably the first time I became aware of clothes was through my paper dolls. And that kind of transition to my Barbie dolls. And then my grandmother was a seamstress. And my other grandmother was a fashion designer herself and sewing was kind of always in the background. 

And I can remember asking my grandmother who was the seamstress to teach me how to sew and she taught me how to hand embroider and how to do basically needlepoint when I was like eight years old, and I still know how to do it very well. She taught me little things. She didn’t teach me a ton, regretfully, but I learned a few things from her that I still have. And right around that time I got my first sewing machine. And I think that kind of just sparked the interest. But it wasn’t so obvious that this would be what I would evolve into. It was more of just you know, something that a little kid did and the love for clothes were there like through my own wardrobe or through wardrobes of the women in my life. My mom, my grandmother, I was very observant to what they were wearing and what they had on but didn’t know how to articulate that interest. You know, I didn’t even know that there was a thing called a fashion designer. I just, you know, loved clothes and thought it was something a little frivolous at the time and You know, I would go on through high school and in college and things like that. 

And I even went to school for something completely different, and got a degree in it. And then on my way to graduate school, I realized that wasn’t what I wanted to do. And my mom said, Well, you’ve always loved fashion, why don’t you do something with that. And I think that was the first time that I really realized that maybe there is more to this, and maybe I can do something with it other than just love it from afar. And I started to research, fashion design schools, and I found a good one and went back to school again, and ended up getting a second bachelor’s degree this time in fashion design. And that was kind of the beginning of the the end, so to speak. And that would set me on a course of fashion that I never looked back from. So

Liz Sumner  

Were you making your own clothes when you were young?

Nic Hyl  

Not really, my sewing wasn’t really good. The only thing I knew how to do like, okay, or pretty good wasn’t the needlepoint, the hand embroidery, I didn’t start making my own clothes until design school. So once I properly knew how to, I’ve never been much of a home, someone who uses home patterns, I’ve always made my patterns. So once I learned how to make patterns, I’d say that that’s when I started sewing for myself. And I can remember when I was in design school, and my girlfriends, and I would go out, you know, to clubs, or to parties or whatever. I don’t know where I got the time, but I was always whipping up a top address a, you know, an outfit to wear, I was always wearing something that I made. And that was, that was I think the beginning of me like wearing my own clothes. Sadly, I don’t have that sort of time anymore. So I don’t get to whip up things as quickly and easily as I would like, very sadly. But I do wear like my my pieces that are you know, selling on the website or that are available for wholesale? I do wear those but it just takes much longer between creating it and producing it before I’m able to wear it. But it’s always a very frightful and

Liz Sumner  

Was there a transition between designing for yourself and designing for other people? Or were you always interested in designing for different bodies,

Nic Hyl  

There definitely is a transition. School teaches people how the art of design, and it kind of stops there, you don’t really learn how to take that design to the masses, which I always found was very interesting, because most designers in design school usually start out wanting to work for themselves where they end up, you know, always his life might take them down a different path. But at their core, if you ask most fashion design students, most of them want to work for themselves at some point along the way. For me, I would say the transition came. I like so many wanted to work for myself too. And as I thought about what that would look like and how I would get from point A to point B, I knew that there was a massive gap. Like there was so much that I didn’t know, even though I had gone to school. So I thought the best way to learn it would just be to work in the industry. So while I was in design school, I had an internship. And when I graduated, maybe a year after I graduated, I got a job as an apprentice to a designer in New York City. And then I was with her for about a year, year and a half. And she had a layoff and I left her and I went to work for another designer. And that designer sadly had to file bankruptcy and they went out of business. And then I left them and wound up at my my last professional place before I started mine and I was there for about six years. 

And it was during that I’ll call it a matriculation for lack of a better word because it did feel like school. And I did learn so much. And especially because I was I was not working in the capacity of fashion design at those jobs. I didn’t think it made sense because I already knew the fashion design part of it right? Like I just went to school. So I didn’t think it made sense to to do what I already knew how to do. I thought it would make more sense to do something I didn’t know how to do so that when I ultimately had my own business, I was indeed filling in that gap and making the best use of the time that I end the exposure to these great minds that I had. So I worked in production, which for any product based business, this is where you’re making the product So the designer creates it, but production makes it and makes more than one of it. And during my, my fashion industry, matriculation, I worked in production for these companies. And it was my opinion and belief that that was what filled in the gap. And what taught me how to make multiples. So, where design school taught me how to make an outfit for myself to go to a party, working for these companies taught me how to make multiple units to put on racks of a store.

Liz Sumner  

So tell me, what is involved in production in the fashion industry? What are the steps that you go through?

Nic Hyl  

Wow. Um, so I, I think all design starts with a sketch is you’re inspired by something, someone is inspired by something. And they sketch it out, which is the most common way to communicate that thought visually. And then once you sketch it out, some people will buy fabric first, they’ll go sketch, then they’ll buy fabric, I do it a little backwards, I sketch and then I make the pattern. And then I buy my fabric. The more common way is to sketch by fabric, make your pattern. After you make your pattern. From there, you begin to make a sample, you make a first sample to see, it’s basically a rough draft. So a writer, you know, outlines their story and develops their characters, a designer sketches, makes a pattern finds their fabric and makes a sample. And that sample, that first sample is usually never correct, there’s usually some sort of revision that has to happen. And it’s either in the construction or in the pattern making or both. Because it’s the first time you’re tangibly seeing it, you know, in a tactile way where you can touch it. So sometimes you know what the brain gives you, you’re like, oh, wait, maybe my zipper needs to be longer. Or maybe I need to use a different fabric, this fabric isn’t working. Or maybe it should have buttons instead of a zipper, you kind of work out all of the things that you didn’t know on that first sample. And if needed, you’ll revise your pattern again, most of the time, you probably will need a second pattern revision, sometimes you’ll need a third pattern revision. 

After you revise the pattern, you make a new sample each time, it can get costly, because for it’s my opinion, for the best fit, and the best end product, you should be working with the material that the finished garment will be in. So I like silk, for example. So I just started a collection of of resortwear and clothing. But what that means is when I’m sampling, I’m also sam– while I’m making my mistakes, I’m still working in silk, which is much more expensive than a lesser expensive product. But the finished garment is always better for it. So it’s just you know, a business expense at that point, you do the amount of iterations that you need until the product is perfect, you deter or as perfect as can be. During that process, you’ll determine is this something that’s even achievable was my idea, even something that can be made, you know, sometimes you can have a very grandiose idea that looks beautiful on paper. But when it comes to realizing it in real life, it’s just not practical to make for whatever reason. 

So you’ll do all of that during the development process. You’ll establish what trends you’re going to use, you’ll source these trends, you’ll source the fabric and start to also work on the financials of the garment as well. So, okay, great. I can make it but is it affordable to make? Can I make a profit off of this garment when I sell it? Retail? These are all questions that you’re thinking of during the development process. 

You’ll test, one should test the garment, they should wear it, they should whatever the consumer would be doing in the garment. The you should be testing it in that manner, so that you know that you’re creating a quality piece. So I make a lot of swimwear. That means that you know these pieces should be worn in a pool. How do they stand up in chlorine? How do they were at the beach? Can you see through it when it’s wet? 

Really just researching and developing a sound product, which can take months, which is why fashion usually is a few months ahead of when the season is that they’ll be released because you have to develop you know some people are developing 30 new styles. So that means that all 30 of those styles have to go through that same develop process, I don’t develop quite so many because I’m a small independent brand. So I’m right around, maybe eight to 12, just depending. And that takes, you know, roughly six to eight months to do for all of them. And once you get that pattern and that sample the way that you intended it to be, then it’s ready to for mass production. 

So now you can finally start to pass it off to someone else so that more things can happen to it, you’ll grade your pattern, which when you make a pattern, you make it in one size. So my sample size is a medium, I then when when my pattern is perfect, and my sample is perfect, I then take it to my pattern grader. And they make the small, the large, the extra large, the 2x, they make all the other sizes where I made just the one and from and I pass the sample with them so that they can see what the garment should look like. And they make all the sizes, they can digitize it and give it to me in a compressed file that I can then email to my factory, or they can make a flat pattern of it with like old school paper, just you know, depends on what the capabilities are that I need for the next rung of the ladder. 

And then once I get my graded pattern back and my original sample and my original pattern, I can then pass it off to the factory. And the factory can then begin to make the amount of units that I have requested them to that’s at my discretion. So if I want them to make 50 Total Units, I tell them how many of each size I want them to make. And I buy the fabric and I give them the fabric I buy all the trims that I’ve identified from sampling. And I send them everything that they need, in order to make the finished garment. They make the finished garment. And hopefully there’s no problems, there’s usually a problem.

That varies, right? There can be all types of problems. And during that part of the process once the factory has it. And depending on the factory that you’re working with anywhere from 30 to 90 days later, you have the amount of garments that you requested them to make. And they either ship them to you. So if I’m selling online, my factory will ship them back to me. And I’ll how’s that inventory, and then I’ll sell it to retail customers, when they buy it on my website. And if it’s for a wholesale order, like I’m sending it to a store, I would have the factory, pack it up and ship it directly to the store.

Liz Sumner  

Wow, thank you. That was everything I wanted to know, or at least it was it was as detailed as I as I wanted it. I appreciate that. 

Liz Sumner  

We’ll have more with Nic Hyl about how she built her clothing brand after the break. 

Liz Sumner  

So I would think that there would be some major differences in how a garment looks going from medium to small and medium to large and extra large. What kinds of things show up in those differences? And how do you account for them and make it look great on all the different sizes?

Nic Hyl  

It’s a really good question. I think within a certain range, there’s not too much of a difference, because the the measurement of the difference isn’t that as large as we would think. So the term for that it’s called your grade rules. So when you take it to your pattern to your pattern maker, they’ll ask you what are your grade rules. And what they’re asking you is what measurement amount is the difference between your small and your medium, between your medium and your large between your large and you’re extra large, and most pattern graders will if it’s alphanumeric, they’ll grade within a range of four to five sizes, maybe six, they don’t like to stretch too far out beyond that. Because then that’s where it starts to do what you’re asking, which is change the shape and change the proportion of the pattern to where the fit is now something completely different than what you intended it to be. 

So if one is making, let’s say extra small through extra large, one pattern will be enough. If someone was making extra small to 10x, let’s say your, if you had a pattern grader who knows what they’re doing, they’ll probably ask you for more than one sample size. So in that case, maybe you would drop off two patterns or three patterns. And that might look like dropping off a size small, a size extra large and maybe Be a size 4x. So that as they stretch the measurements, the measurements are staying true to what the original shape was intended to be. 

Because my size range isn’t going up as high as a 10x, I’m still able to bring them just one pattern. However, as I dive down the rabbit hole of plus sized pieces, this was a conversation my pattern maker and I had earlier this year, I have to bring them to sample sizes. Now, in order for them to be able to grade the larger sizes, because they are concerned that the fit and the shape would be compromised with just the one

Liz Sumner  

The number of things that you need to be smart about in in that business is enormous. I can’t imagine that everybody who likes fashion design and wants to have their own business wants to, to learn about all of the pieces that one would have to do in order to have one’s own business. Do you like all of them? Do you have any kind of particular favorite pieces of what it takes to run a brand?

Nic Hyl  

I I love it all. I love the production. I love the product development. I love the design. I love thinking critically and analytically. And at its core, it’s a lot of problem solving. And I’m really good at that. So I like it. And it’s kind of like a really weird, interesting puzzle, to try to get all these things to fit together to make this this item.

Liz Sumner  

So we’ve talked a lot about the business side of this. Tell me how you chose to design the kind of fashion that you do. And tell me more about the helping women love themselves as they are?

Nic Hyl  

Sure. So I My family’s from Jamaica, and I grew up in Florida. And then I worked for an amazing designer, Norma Kamali. And she started her business with swimwear. And I grew up on the beach and at the pool just because, you know, I’m a first generation American whose parents are from an island surrounded by water in the in the Caribbean. So swimwear is is very naturally a part of my life. I had my first I can’t think of a time where I’ve never had a swimsuit. And as long as I, I mean, I found pictures of me the other day at like two, three years old, and a little bikini. You know, like I’ve always had swimwear. And it so normal to me. 

And when I moved to New York, and I went to the beach for the first time in New York, it was really interesting, because I would see these really fashionable women, you know, on Fifth Avenue and Madison Avenue, and they’re there. They’re stunning. And then when I would go to the beach, I’m imagining these are some of the same women. The swimwear did not reflect what I was seeing on Madison Avenue. It was sad. Like, that’s the best way to describe it. It was just sad. And I just kept thinking to myself, Why do you look amazing on the street, but then at the beach, your swimwear is and by now I hadn’t yet started designing swimwear. I was just hyper aware of it. And I’m wondering, you know, these, these pieces are not fitting properly. They’re poor quality. Some of them were you could tell just very old and needed to be taken out to pasture.

And just not flattering the body that it was on. And I think that was probably the first time that I was like, Oh, let me let me start with swimwear. It’s something that I know Norma did it I can just kind of take a page out of her playbook and and maybe follow that same trajectory hopefully right. And that was kind of why I started with with swimwear. And then I truly began to love it. It’s it’s a good product to start with because the fabric is expensive but you don’t need a lot of so it’s also good for that reason, you just get a little bit more consumption per yard than you would with making pants or a jacket or something that’s larger. The tricky part though, is swimwear is more technical. So you have to really understand the body that it’s being fitted on and how it should fit in order to make it properly. 

That’s how I got into swimwear and then it Naturally expanded into resortwear. Because, you know, people don’t just wear swimsuits, they wear things to cover them up, they wear little dresses, they wear cute little outfits, maybe they’re not going to the pool at all. But they want to feel like they’re their dress for the moment. And that’s kind of how I got into into that product category, in terms of making, or wanting women to feel beautiful while they’re wearing those products. That was very natural. 

When I first started the brand, I was doing a lot of pop ups and trunk shows and working face to face with the consumer. And one thing I kept getting over and over and over again, was just really negative self talk about one’s physical appearance. And what’s interesting is when I was in college, or shortly after college, I was managing a or design school, I was managing a swimsuit shop. And I started noticing the negative self talk there but didn’t really pay much attention to it. Fast forward to when I have my own business, and I’m doing these pop ups and these trunk shows, it pops up again. And I hear this negative self talk again. 

What’s interesting about that is I worked in retail all through college of some way, when I was working with clothes, I didn’t really hear the negative self talk as much as I heard it when I was working with swimwear. So it was my I took that to be because clothes kind of we can hide behind it. It didn’t matter if you know someone thought negatively about their their C section scar or their mastectomy scar or their cellulite or their stretch marks or you know, the skin discoloration, whatever was going on, it didn’t really matter with clothes, because naturally people pick pieces that hide the things that they want to hide. But with swimwear, that becomes profoundly more difficult. It’s, it’s it’s much more difficult to hide your body, if there’s something that you don’t like. 

And what I found with when helping women with swimwear, whether it was at the swimsuit shop that I was managing in college or with my own product, women would always have a confession with me of the thing they hated about their body, and then they would try the swimsuit on. So as we’re walking to the fitting room and we’re talking, I’m hearing them say I’m just so fat, just ignore my cellulite or I you know, if I looked at this, I need you to tell me, okay, don’t let me get this, if I look at I need you to be honest with me, or, you know, I had breast cancer and I had my breasts removed and I haven’t had a surgery to augment them yet. So just ignore that it’s not gonna fit like this, I’m having my surgery next week. Or, or, or like, there’s literally nothing that I haven’t heard or seen in that in that space. And at first, once it was my own product, I was a little off put by it. And I didn’t really know how to react to it. 

And at the time, my husband was my fiancee, and he said to me, well just, you know, dive into that, you know, embrace that and talk about it, embrace it, and if everybody is addressing it, then maybe you need to address it as well. And that’s the beginning of talking about it and just trying to build a community around it so that people understand all of those things that everybody said to me is 1,000% Normal. Because while you the person trying to swim suit on, don’t know what other women are saying I do. And I can tell you that regardless of the age, the race, the socio economic status, the religion, where they’re from nationality, there’s when all those things are stripped away at its core people who identify as women all have some sort of insecurity that they own. And I just want to bring light to that and tell everyone all of those things are normal.

Liz Sumner  

Wow, that’s really moving. So so how does Nic Hyl clothing address that? How would I see it as a as a customer?

Nic Hyl  

Great question. You see it in the messaging you see it in the way that we speak to you whether you’re on our website Nic Hyl calm or on our Instagram page at Nic Hyl clothing, you see it in the messaging, there’s there’s positive body image quotes on the website. There’s positive quotes on the Instagram. We we just address it we say it we tell you it’s normal. And then we show you we try to not edit the pictures to remove stretch marks so you like any sort of skin. I call them normalities because Because whatever skin does is normal to the human body, I don’t think they’re abnormal. So whether that’s pimples or vitiligo, or, you know, dark spots, whatever it is, we don’t, we don’t remove those. 

The only way we edit our images is with lighting, sometimes the pics the the lighting will be dark. So we actually brighten it so that you can see those normalities more and saturation. Sometimes like for a red swimsuit, maybe it’s not quite as red as I want it to be in the picture. So I increase the saturation a little bit so that the colors pop just a little bit more. But other than that we don’t do any airbrushing or slimming down of the models or removing natural things that we would see on anyone’s skin in person. 

he models don’t even wear a ton of makeup because it’s it’s for you know, a swimsuit. So we don’t really wear a ton of makeup. When we’re at the beach, we try to just be as natural as possible with the imagery that we’re showing to people, we we try to be clear that we’re not using a ton of filters. We try to speak to our customers in a loving way, so that they can begin to speak to themselves in that way. I wrote a 30 day living beautifully challenge to start to work and address on some of the insecurities that we all have. I wrote a mindfulness journal so that someone can begin to process the thoughts that they have. And, and both the journal and the challenge are free. Anybody can sign up at any time. And and get those tools as a way to begin to, to work on their self talk and loving themselves more. 

And I think this is a great place to talk about my first degree is in psychology. So as I was hearing these things, I’m I’m recognizing that this is not right. Like, it can’t be normal, that everybody that I’m helping in a fitting room. It has some everybody like I’m when I say everyone I mean 100% of the people that I am helping in the fitting room have some sort of body dysmorphia negative self talk negative opinion about something on their body. And what I usually try to communicate whether it’s on the website, face to face, or on our Instagram channel, or even in the the challenge or the journal is, you know, who cares, you you, you’re here, you’re beautiful, despite what you think. And the individual often magnifies those things more than anybody else, you know, the world doesn’t see it quite as as center stage as we do. And oftentimes, when we bring attention to it, that’s when it becomes obvious to the world. But if you just you know, put your swimsuit on, that you feel comfortable in and fits you properly, you’re probably going to look amazing, more so than what you think you do.

Liz Sumner  

That is really inspiring. And I will make sure to put instructions on how to get the journal and the challenge in the show notes.

Nic Hyl  

Thank you, 

Liz Sumner  

You’re you’re changing the world. This is this is very cool stuff. So let’s turn it to advice for people who are listening, if they happen to have always wanted to design something, what are some resources that you can recommend maybe people not necessarily who want to go to school, but some early steps for people who just love fashion and maybe want to take it to the next level.

Nic Hyl  

So the cool thing about the the time that we’re all living in right now is gone are the days where you actually have to go to design school to be a designer. You there’s a lot of information out there. And I think the benefit I’m not saying not to go to Design School, I think the benefit of it is that it organizes the process for you and teaches you the structure with which to begin to develop an idea. That said, I think there’s a lot of resources out there that someone can take advantage of. If design school isn’t an option for them because design schools expensive. There’s tons of videos that you can see with people doing things on YouTube. Some of the more prestigious design schools have individual courses that you can take that don’t go towards a degree. If you have a haberdashery store or a trim store or a fabric store in your community, sometimes they offer sewing classes. So you can, you know, learn to sew with the help of a guided professional. Sometimes you have seen places online that can teach you how to sew or teach you how to make patterns. So there’s resources out there, if you look, 

I actually during the pandemic last year, I actually wrote a course to teach people how to do product development and production, and how to consistently make quality goods season after season. So I my program picks up from where all of those other things would kind of leave off. If you remember, we were talking about when I went to design school, I started working for these companies to bridge the gap between what I learned in school, and what I needed for my business. And the program that I created is kind of that gap. It’s teaching you a lot of the things that I learned while I was working at, at those great companies in New York City. So there’s there are tools nowadays, for someone to be able to piece together to begin to go down that road of being a designer or having a brand and and really making you know, great pieces. Not everyone goes to design school, you’ll still have to invest just not a ton that you like you would at design school.

Liz Sumner  

And how can people find your course?

Nic Hyl  

A good, great question. The course is at NicHylFashionuniversity.com. 

Liz Sumner  

Brilliant. I’ll put the link to that. 

Nic Hyl  

Thank you.

Liz Sumner  

Are you open to people contacting you for advice?

Nic Hyl  

Sure, absolutely. You can email me at [email protected].

Liz Sumner  

Is there anything you’d like to say in conclusion,

Nic Hyl  

Just you know, love yourself, have grace with yourself. Be patient with yourself in all matters. So whether that’s your appearance, and how you feel about your body, just love yourself and have patience, if that’s with starting a business and feeling frustrated because things aren’t going your way every day. Just love yourself and have patience with yourself. And somehow those two pieces of ingredients just allow us to to become who we’re supposed to be.

Liz Sumner  

Brilliant. Thank you so much. You’re welcome. My thanks to Nic Hyl. You can find out more about Nic Hyl clothing and links to the free gifts she mentioned in the show notes. I had so many questions if Nic there wasn’t time for at all, but you can hear more of our conversation as a Patreon supporter at patreon.com/always wanted. I’m grateful for your support of all kinds, sharing with your friends giving me feedback and leaving reviews. I invite everyone to write and tell me what you’ve always wanted to try. I’m Liz Sumner, reminding you to be bold and thanks for listening.

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