Patrisha McLean is a photojournalist whose life was upended in 2016 when her husband of 29 years was arrested for domestic violence. The arrest set her free, and on a course of activism around women’s rights. In 2019 she started the non-profit organization and movement breaking the silence of domestic abuse Finding Our Voices, which is at FindingOurVoices.net. She has a podcast and radio show of conversations with survivors and for 2021 was named one of 21 leaders for the 21st century by Women’s eNews.
Patrisha adds, “Also, since leaving my ex, I am doing everything I always wanted to do. “Scuba diving” is one thing, but the biggest thing is probably ‘making a difference in the world.'”
https://www.facebook.com/breakthesilenceofdomesticabuse/
https://www.instagram.com/finding.our.voices/
https://twitter.com/patrishamclean
Resources Patrisha Mentions
Power and Control Wheel
https://findingourvoices.net/projects/#powerwheels
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Remarks
I’ve heard from some of you that you listen for the uplifting and positive stories that my guests often tell. Well today’s topic is a lot more serious than my usual subjects. But while we get into some very dark territory, Patrisha’s story shines light on behavior that’s often not talked about and is especially inspiring because of how she turned her harrowing experience into a way of helping others.
In preparing for this episode, one article I read says that one in every four women and girls worldwide has experienced domestic abuse. I am fortunate that I am not one of them, though I will say that after listening to Patrisha, that there’s a lot of what she describes that’s frighteningly familiar. I have certainly struggled with low self esteem and because of that I’ve tolerated the intolerable.
But not for 29 years.
I wanted to understand what makes a person remain in a relationship when she’s being mistreated. To make sense of the statement “He wouldn’t let me.” Patrisha’s deeply vulnerable and open account helped me comprehend the mechanisms that led her to enter and stay in an abusive relationship, for many years. And how she was finally able to free herself and turn her life around.
I chose not to include all of the examples she shared. There were a lot and it was pretty awful. I left in enough so that people can recognize a variety of behaviors that are not acceptable and also resources that will help you take next steps if you’re a victim or a friend.
I’m deeply grateful to Patrisha McLean for talking with me, and for all of the people doing work to help victims of domestic violence, in particular to Susan Scrupski of Glorious Alone Productions who made the introduction.
Here’s the interview.
Transcript
Liz Sumner
My guest today is Patrisha McLean. She is a women’s rights activist, a photographer and founder of finding our voices.net, a survivor powered nonprofit organization, breaking the silence of domestic abuse. Welcome, Patricia.
Patrisha McLean
Thank you. It’s really nice to be here with you.
Liz Sumner
Thank you so much for agreeing to do this conversation with me. I, I really think it’s important. And I wanted to find the right person to have the conversation of, I’ve always wanted to leave an abusive relationship. And you’re recommended and tell me why you agreed to do this conversation with me?
Patrisha McLean
Well, right away when I saw the podcast and listen to some of the episodes, I was very honored to be asked to be on on this. So thank you. The theme really resonates with me, what I’ve always wanted to do. The answer of I’ve always wanted to leave an abusive relationship, that wouldn’t apply to me because I was in an abusive relationship for 29 years. And I did not consider it abuse. I mean, I knew what was happening, it was wrong, but I didn’t consider myself a victim of domestic abuse. And I wouldn’t say I always wanted to leave either. I was actually more afraid of him leaving me that was my fear. Because I was so dependent on him. And that’s I starting FindingOurVoices and talking with with women and understanding what I went through. I really understand that one. You know, they’re all about getting and maintaining control. And one of the things they do is they tear you down, they put you down. They make you feel like you can’t make it without them. And that’s how I did feel. And then so that’s why the topic what have you always wanted to do– I had so many yearnings in those 29 years, that were not fulfilled, I couldn’t do them because I was being controlled.
Liz Sumner
I have been fortunate enough that I have not been in an abusive relationships. And I don’t understand what what it feels like to be so controlled that you that you can’t do what you want to do.
Patrisha McLean
So to be trapped, and that’s probably hard for them to understand. But what happens is, it’s sort of a, a gradual, in a way, a gradual process. Well, it starts off, this is what happened to me. But I’ve heard this echoed over and over again. They sweep you off your feet. So I was absolutely swept off my feet. He was a famous singer coming through town. I interviewed him he told me he loved me the first night, bombarded me with with gifts, and just was so romantic. And it was exciting to be with him. And, and then they move very fast. That’s another thing that happens. And it did. As I said, he told me, he loved me the first night, asked me to move back east with him. And then because we were so in love, he wanted me to live with him. But I was out west as a newspaper reporter he was out he was living in a back east. So I quit my job, I quit my career, I sold my car, I gave up my apartment. And that when I was dependent on him, that’s when I saw his temper for the first time. So this all led up to it. It’s not like I, when I first met him, he was a prince charming, that he was incredible. I felt so lucky to be to have him love me. And then I was trapped. And that’s what I hear from other women. There’s always something that traps them really like sometimes they when they get pregnant, that’s when it is sometimes when it’s get married, like the minute they get married, you know, things change. And for me it was the day that I just gave up everything to move back east with him. And then he lost his temper. I couldn’t believe it. I’d never seen anything like it. But I I was I really was trapped. And I was kind of blocking it out. I was like making excuses for it. So that’s one thing.
And then what happens is, you have a memory of how incredible it was because it’s always I don’t know, if I’m at maybe I’m sure there’s relationships that are incredible, and they stay incredible. But it’s almost like it’s, I would I would think this is more incredible than any most relationships. So you’re always wanting it to go back to that and then it’s a cycle. So they start Snap, he started snapping at me and that I was you know, really knowing something was gonna happen and then and then if it did, like you’d blow up and it would just be a rampage for like days and then you just want it to be over and then when it’s finally over, you’re just super careful not to spark it again. And so this is called Walking on Eggshells, which I did literally for 29 years, like every evening when we were having good time. I was always conscious that it could change, I was worried that it could change, always trying to keep the peace.
So I’ll give you a perfect example to set up to being stymied, and you know, yearnings and not being able to be controlled. So my family lived in Montreal, and I’m from I was living in San Francisco when I met. So move back east closer to my family, great, I’ll get to see them more. Another thing about these abusers is they isolate you. So at first, it’s because they love you so much, and they want you all to themselves. And that’s kind of flattering, because they love you so much. So that’s how you see it, but it’s just isolating you and they don’t, they don’t like your family, they don’t like your friends. And so even the idea of seeing my mother, I would bring it up and it would he would explode, he would get so angry with just the question that I would just put off asking it like that, to me was normal. But to you, obviously, it wouldn’t be normal to ask your partner if you can go and visit your mother. But I would, you know, bring it up, I’ve been really worried about how to approach it wait for him to be in a good mood, how am I going to ask knowing he’s going to blow up and then deciding? Well, maybe it’s not, maybe it’s not that important that I see her because it’s just not worth the trouble that this is gonna cause. And then finally, when so much time has gone by, and I have to visit her, I’ll just like, have to say it and put up with the consequences, which will be, you know, weeks of him being furious. So that’s a simple thing, not being able to see my mother. But that’s that was every way it was. That’s how that’s how I ended up being controlled.
Liz Sumner
You said earlier that you weren’t aware that you were in an abusive relationship, it never occurred to you to to always want to leave. How is it that you’re not seeing that? What happens to a person inside that they don’t see what’s going on?
Patrisha McLean
So one of the things that Finding Our Voices does is we have this outreach, and it’s all survivors based. So we have faces and names of survivors in Maine, on these bookmarks, so there’s 35 of all these woman aged 18 to 81. Their portrait, I’m a photographer, I take the portrait, and then it has a quote. And then on the back of the bookmarks is something called the Power and Control Wheel. And this is something that you usually see– Have you ever seen the Power and Control Wheel?
Liz Sumner
I have not.
Patrisha McLean
The Duluth in Minnesota, they created this in the 1980s. And it shows all the tactics that someone will use to get and maintain control over their partner. So usually, you know, if you’re if you recognize it, you’re a victim of domestic abuse, you might call your domestic abuse advocate. And then you’ll go inside and talk with someone, they’ll close the door, they’ll show you this, we’ll you’ll talk about it. And that’s why most people don’t know about it, you only know about it, you know if you reach out for that for the help. So we’re trying to change that. And we’re trying to get this so everyone understands it so that they can know what to look for with. So as for me, like if I had known isolation, you know, walking on eggshells controlling that that was abuse, if I had known that maybe I would have put it together quicker. And so that’s how you can help understand what is really going on here because it is a pattern. So when you ask how I didn’t see it, that’s that’s some of it.
Liz Sumner
Can we put the Power and Control Wheel in the show notes?
Patrisha McLean
Yeah, not only that, but at FindingOurVoices.net we have the power and control wheels customized for pretty much everyone out all 35 women and you can scroll down and look at them all. Absolutely the power and control wheel everyone needs to need to see that and know it.
Liz Sumner
Yeah, I get it. It doesn’t seem like there’s something wrong until you read this and say, Oh, not everybody has to walk on eggshells?
Patrisha McLean
Yes. Like, like there was a woman that came over to my house. And I had known her for like 30 years. And I just hadn’t seen her for a while. And we sat on the deck. And I asked her how her boyfriend was– they’ve been together for a long time. And by her reaction, I could tell something was wrong. And I just said, is he abusive? And then she said, Well, you know, she talked to me about how he was controlling like she even visiting me like he was timing her and she had to get back. She wasn’t allowed really to visit people. And I just went into my living room. I pulled up one of these things. I gave it to her. And as we sat on the on the porch, she was just like, stunned. She was just like underlining like everything, putting her down, making her feel bad about herself, calling her names, making her think she’s crazy, controlling what she does, who she sees and talks to eliminate your outside involvement, making light of the abuse. I mean, just go all around it. And it sparked like, it lit up in her head. And whereas before when she was sitting down with me she was like, well, I’ll never leave him because you just never imagined that you will and then by the end of it she was thinking, you know, she was starting to think and starting to put it together. So that’s what this does.
Liz Sumner
Okay, so confusion and being controlled and having the outside influences limited so that you don’t have connection with with people who will show you how strange this is. Right? What else makes it difficult for somebody to leave, particularly when you have been beaten?
Patrisha McLean
Well, I just wanted to say when you said that thing about not having that’s exactly what is it? The isolation is, there’s nobody to just point out to you this is this is not right. Like, I remember when I left. I remember at my friend Marcy, I was talking to her. And I was like, you mean– like she’s been married. She’s married to this guy, Alan, they’ve a great, you know, the married a long time. So you mean, he’s never like, grabbed your wrist? He’s never like, shoved you? Like, I couldn’t even believe it. Like, to me, it was so normal, like, and when she was looking at me, she’s like, No, and and I just, I just, it just, it just is so normalized. Well, of course, as I mentioned, that they put you down. So I was, I was living in his world. So my world, which when I met him was big I, I was an award-winning newspaper reporter in California, I, I was passionate about writing, and starting to be very interested in photography. But that was all like, not important. So everything was about him. And the only conversation was always about him. Why? Well, when I start talking about myself, like he tunes out, and he’s not interested, when I start talking about him, his eyes light up, and he is interested. And so because I’m always trying to keep the peace and keep them happy, and that’s my total focus, obviously, that’s what we’re going to be talking about. And that’s what’s going to be, it’s going to be our life.
So part of that is that you’re you’re filled up with his life. And I felt like, I was afraid I was so afraid that he would leave me because I, I was really a shell of myself. I wasn’t, I didn’t have, I didn’t feel that I had anything going for myself. And it was I was so filled up with him, like, what would I do if he wasn’t there? Like it would be amputating like a big part of me. And then they put you down like, right in the very beginning, he would be saying, calling me “Stupid dummy idiot.” Like in the beginning, but that was, you know, it was considered kind of like, I don’t know, I didn’t really take it seriously, I thought. I probably didn’t, they didn’t like it because he kept doing it. But it just seemed almost like an endearment after a while. But then it starts with that. And that’s like how stupid you are. And then it’s so then lack of self confidence, thinking I can’t be on my own. And then the interesting thing is he reframed everything. And even my daughter told me that when she found out like when I talked to her later, after I left and mentioned I had been an award-winning reporter, when I met him, she was like, Oh, my goodness, like he had he had said, the narrative was that I was like a Cinderella, that, you know, he had picked up, and that he had elevated and had had nothing going for me. Then bringing us to financial abuse, which is huge. In virtually every case of domestic abuse has financial abuse.
There’s some women who make the money, and yet, the man is the one who controls it. Like she doesn’t have it, because she makes it but it’s given already him and again, all keeping the peace, you know, and in my case, I had signed a prenuptial agreement. I signed the document when I met him, that basically said that when we divorced, I would have nothing, so I would get nothing in the divorce. And toward the end of our marriage, we had four homes, and he had like four cars, but everything was in his name. I had no– I had zero credit. So if I was gonna leave him, I would have nothing. And this is– we had a beautiful home and the home meant a lot to me, it was my refuge. I made beautiful rose gardens there. And just the idea that I would be cast out and what was I going to do at that point? You know, moving into an apartment somewhere that was really hard. So that that was part of it, you know? Yeah, they control they control the money. So that’s, that’s a big part also, why it’s why it’s hard to leave.
Liz Sumner
So how did you– What was the process for you finally, extricating yourself from this?
Patrisha McLean
Well, the process was that he was arrested for domestic violence. I called 911. At the second that I thought he was gonna kill me, I called 911 on the same because of the same thing, like in 1994. But back then I begged them not to arrest him, said that everything was okay that you know, we both been drinking and just the same way you look in court reports now and I, I sort of see what happens with domestic abuse and this is standard, you know, the woman often will will will cover up and try to protect him. So I was doing the same thing. But in 1994, the police listened to me and they did not arrest him. And since then there has been a change in the law where it’s called Mandatory Arrest. So if there’s if they see signs of domestic violence, that they have to make an arrest, and that’s what they did, they arrested him. He had bail conditions of no contact, he was still getting through to me, you know, with phone calls to my sister and all kinds of, you know, so much manipulation to try to pull me back. But it really allowed me to, to just have him out of my head for the first time and 29 years.
And now that everybody knew, people were telling me things, you know, that they never liked him that that he that, you know, he was so arrogant, and that they noticed how he treated me. And no one had ever said that while we were married, like they had said, we heard him screaming at you. We saw you know, one woman said, Yeah, we saw you in the airport, and he was banging on the door when you were in the bathroom. Like, I couldn’t even go to the bathroom, you know, and he was like, get out like he was it was just crazy. But it did seep over into public life. But no one had ever said anything in the marriage. Now they did. And that’s what that’s what really got me out and, and the fact that he was just so cruel, like, when during the bail conditions. He was in the home, because I had escaped because I was I was fled because I was terrified that he’s gonna come after me and kill me. So I needed I wanted to get back into the house and get my some things of mine. And he made it so difficult through lawyers for me to do that, like things like that, where he would be on one hand, sending these love missives love bombing, like combat, I can’t live without you. But they didn’t have like, not letting me get back to my get my things out of the house. And it just finally, I just realized, and then talking to a domestic abuse agency, I called them I talked with them, it just all came together, I started to understand more and more. And that’s what got me out.
Liz Sumner
You mentioned that that people who said afterwards, oh, I always hated him, because he didn’t treat you right. What would you want your friends to have done? What advice can we give to friends who, who see their their women friends get abused? What is useful to say?
Patrisha McLean
I would say call out bad behavior. You know, if you’re, if you’re out to dinner with friends, if you’re out to dinner with a couple and the guy or it could be the girl, you know, it goes both ways. I’ve seen women harangue, men, you know, really abused them and the man just sitting there mortified. If he’s putting her down, if he’s doing if he’s talking to her in a way that shouldn’t be taught to call it out, like, hey, you know, that’s not that’s not very nice, like, you shouldn’t be doing that. If you you know, it doesn’t even it doesn’t be physical, you know, obviously, if he’s pushing her or you know, grabbing her or something, her wrist, you call it out, but even emotional crap like that, like you need to call it out. And also, the other thing you could do if a friend is going through something, and if they tell you something that’s not right in the relationship, to just not judge, because what happens sometimes is the reason that I would never have told anybody what was going on, is I guess I was afraid that if I told them, and then obviously, I’m still with this guy, they’re gonna be judging me or pressuring me, like, why are you still with him? And I wasn’t ready to leave. And so it would have just been embarrassing. And so everyone has to realize that this is very difficult, like the woman knows sometimes that you know, it’s not healthy for her to be there.
But there’s lots of reasons why she’s trapped– fear. Okay, one of the things is, it’s actually, a lot of times does get worse when you leave it did for me, it got worse. And my daughter says the same thing that when I, I did leave him, it got worse for her too. What was really scary was that well, the other thing is, when we were together, I still felt like we were a team in some weird way. Like it was me and him, me and him and him and making all these excuses for his behavior. But I saw how he treated other people. He was vicious, like he was sadistic and how he treated, you know, supposed adversaries. And so I was always afraid of being an adversary to that degree. And that’s, that’s what happened. After I left him. He put he had five or six lawyers on me. He was putting out messages to the press, you know, and they were picking it up, you know, calling me crazy. I never knew what was happening there.
So it was emotional than hammering me like financially, like literally, I had this little bit of money that I’d saved and it was just all going for lawyers just to answer all these ridiculous court motions and, and I didn’t know what I was going to do there and it was just I just remember that I I was drowning, and he was trying it didn’t it didn’t seem to be affecting him like he was still getting bookings. Even with the arrest so and guilty pleas so public. But I was felt like I really was drowning. I just didn’t know what to do. And it was just one thing after the other. And it was just really like the, the the lowest, lowest lowest point and, and then my daughter said that, you know, there always been, I always been a buffer between her and him. And so then when I left I wasn’t the buffer. And so all of his antagonism and attacks, you know, were on her because he couldn’t physically get to me anymore. So for her, it was harder to and. And then with my kids, the whole I don’t know, it was just the whole thing was just a total nightmare. So it got worse until it got better, which is now which is, you know. It’s fabulous now.
Liz Sumner
So how did you finally get free and to a state where you were no longer living in fear of your life and that you could start appreciating who you were?
Patrisha McLean
I guess what happened is I just started, started talking about it. You know, really that’s what that’s what the key was, for me. The key was breaking the silence. When the newspaper headlines about the arrest came out, it was the worst thing that could have happened. It was mortifying, I you know, but it turned out to be the best thing really, because it was all out there. It wasn’t a secret anymore. And I started talking about with other women, they started talking about with me, and we launched Finding Our Voices, which is a nonprofit, and it’s just really gained steam. It’s it’s resonated with a lot of people, because no one really does talk about it. So that’s what that’s what really did it for me that that’s what got me out. And also I just, you know, I lived in fear for 29 years, I’m just refused to be ruled by fear anymore. And everything I’m saying about what happened to me is the truth. I was worried about litigation. He’s very litigious. But he you know, it’s been five years, he’s never sued me for, you know, saying anything, because it is the truth. And truth is the best defense. I just think everything needs to be out there. We’re talking for women, you know, who can’t who can’t or don’t want it. Not everyone, not everyone loves to talk about it. Not every woman feels they can. And that’s okay, you know, we’re 40 — up close to 40 women now and talking about our experiences. And because there’s that number, there’s going to be things that other people relate to resonates with them, they can find a few of the women that they really relate to their story. And that’s what we’re doing.
Liz Sumner
That’s wonderful. I’m really glad that you were able to turn a nightmare into something so powerful and useful. When you were in trapped in this relationship you said that there were so many things that you yearned to do. Tell me what you yearned to do and what you have been able to do since getting yourself free.
Patrisha McLean
Yes, because when I heard the theme of your show, it wasn’t I’ve always wanted to get out of domestic abuse, because I never thought that I could get out of domestic abuse and didn’t know it was domestic abuse. But there was so many things that I wasn’t able to do that I knew I couldn’t do. Because he controlled every aspect of my life. And one of the things, for instance, was I always wanted to go to Italy. Like I had always wanted to get before I met him, you know, I met him when I was 27. And that’s one thing like Italy, because I love you know, I love good food. You know, that was one of the reasons and it just seemed so romantic. And he toured a lot in his career. So we would go to we so we traveled, because I mostly always went with him. But it was places that were mostly English speaking places, like he was popular in England, Australia. So those are the places he went to. So I went over and over and over again to England and Australia. But I wanted to go to Italy, and I couldn’t go to Italy because he wasn’t performing there. And the idea of, I couldn’t travel myself, he wouldn’t let me he just wouldn’t let me take a trip on my own. So that was one of the things.
And then after, when I was divorced, immediately, I went to Havana, like the, the one thing I did, I left him like I left him and like that day I booked the trip, because I had always wanted to go to Cuba and I wanted to go to a place before it was Americanized. And, and then and then the whole room was open to me. Um, because all my dreams like I could do anything I wanted. I did end up getting a settlement where I was able to travel. That was, you know, no, no wish of his own, but he was stymied in in having me lead with absolutely nothing. So I had always wanted to scuba dive, okay, not that I always wanted to, but I, I saw admired people that scuba dives dove so much. I didn’t ever thought I could. But I got certified, I got certified in Cozumel. And I went to Egypt twice and scuba dove in Egypt and I swam with mating occupi. And yeah, it was incredible. There was such liberation like I truly was liberated and free to just have an idea and act on it.
And that’s the thing with FindingOurVoices that I feel like I’m so much on fire because I’m just having all these ideas and I feel on my creativity that was staunched and stymied and all of my energy that was all focused on keeping the peace make keeping them happy. I have it for myself now. You know on one hand like these guys, they’re robbers the there’s domestic abuse is a crime of violence is a crime but there’s more crimes than that then happen be a part of it, which is theft and robbery, because they they rob you of your life. They steal your life from you, they steal your, you know, what you’re meant to be, what you’re meant to you want to do, and they extinguish, you know, any light, you know that they can. But I feel so that is sad that there was 29 years of that, but I’m really making up for it now, because I I’m just doing everything I want to do and doing it how I want to do it. And it’s and it’s helping other women, which is a beautiful thing.
Liz Sumner
Really Yes. Are there characteristics of women who have more of a likelihood of being abused?
Patrisha McLean
I would say it’s comes like either, or it seems to me from my experience. It’s women who, you know, had a really happy childhood, their father was fabulous. And so they’re completely caught off guard. Like they don’t, they can’t, they don’t understand it, like they’ve never seen like it, they’ve never heard about it. And that could be one way that you could be pulled in. And the other thing is, if you’ve had a traumatic childhood, it feels comfortable to you. And that that is my case, because my father and mother were violent. And I talked about this with my daughter where I remember I had, I had like, you know, abusive highschool boyfriend who abused the dog in front of me. That’s the other thing. Animal abuse and people abuse are very closely aligned. A lot of women who’ve been through domestic abuse will say that they, their abusers also hurt their pets. They hurt the pets, because it knows because they love the pets. And it knows that’s how it’ll hurt the woman more, but also because it just vicious individuals. So with me, I remember I had one nice boyfriend. I was 18. He was really sweet. And I remember thinking myself, like, I don’t want to be happy. Like, this is too boring. Like I was actively rejecting happiness. And that’s I realized, only now I just it just put it together. Like that wasn’t comfortable for me. Like I was more comfortable with what I had grown up with the chaos, you know, and I don’t know if you call it excitement. It wasn’t excitement, but it was just like, you know, constantly like being triggered and chaos.
And so that’s what I I, I wanted and that’s what I felt I needed and I and so that’s what I went for so, so I do feel like that’s another that happens if you have trauma in your childhood, you could be more prone but I would say rather than say what’s in the woman that leads her to be in relationships like this. I would I think the really the answer is that these abusers target, they target women that they feel will put put up with their crap. I’ve talked to maybe 75 women between the women who are our banners and bookmarks– and these banners, by the way are two foot by four foot posters with a woman’s face name quote, and these are on downtown business windows all over the state. So and then between that and the women that I’ve talked with for my podcast and radio show survivors, every single one of them is a super nice woman, like super nice, super gentle. So kind. And that’s what these guys target because we feel sorry for them, we make excuses for them. We’re so have so much love in our hearts and we’re so full of love. And that’s what I say the common denominator I have found is.
Liz Sumner
You mentioned being swept off your feet. Are there any, like warning signs or advice that you could be able to see what this person’s tendencies might be like, early on, before you got involved?
Patrisha McLean
I would say like, some things to look out for, you know, sweeping you off your feet. Yeah, pay close attention to that. Moving quickly, like moving very quickly to seal the deal. Like I would absolutely say to any woman, take your time, like there is no rush, you know, just go slow. The other thing if they lie, like if you catch them in a lie, I really think that you should really be on on guard. Oh, vilifying the ex. And here’s advice I would give to every woman contact the exes. Like that may seem disloyal when you’re in the relationship, but I don’t think you could better get an idea of who you’re dealing with. And doing that. Because these guys will vilify the exes you know, and that’s another way to feel make you feel sorry for them for them. And the ex is, you know, you know, like mine would always say that she like, undermined his career and ruined his career, all this crap. So they’ll vilify the exes. The other thing is, if look at it, look at their relationships, like if they have no friends, like that should be a red flag. Look at their relationships, also how they feel about their mother. Like, I think if a man, if they had a healthy relationship with a mother, respects the mother, loves the mother, I think that would be really good. So if they don’t, if they hate their mother, that would be a red flag.
And then also, if they start to isolate you, like, if they don’t like your friends, if they don’t like your family, that would be a red flag. You know, they’re, they’re kind of all over the place. So it’s just, I think it’s a matter of just keeping your eyes open. The problem is that love is blind. So that’s why you want to have your eyes open and your ears open before you know you fall in love. Because then when you first meet the person, that’s why take it slow, you know, really, like pay attention. And the other thing is that someone says something to me once, which really resonates, which is “when you’re hungry for love, you’ll, you’ll eat lies.” So don’t be hungry for love, like, build yourself up, if you’re not already confident, so that you’re happy with your life. You don’t need someone to fulfill you. And that you’re you know, you’re happy with yourself. And so then if someone comes along, and you’re like, this doesn’t feel good, you’re ready to just say goodbye, because you don’t need that person. The overriding thing is trust your gut. Because if it doesn’t feel right, it’s not right. So listen, listen to yourself.
Liz Sumner
Very wise advice. For somebody who’s saying, “Oh, my situation, isn’t that bad? It’s not the way that I want it. But I mean, he doesn’t hit me.” something.
Patrisha McLean
Yeah, that’s another — you’re asking really good questions. If you if you’ll notice on this Power and Control Wheel, there’s something that says that right there Minimizing there’s a word that says– So okay, the problem is, is that the abusers minimize it to you, right? So when that when it’s happening, it’s always Oh, you’re making you know, you’re a drama queen, you’re, you’re making it up, it’s not that bad, you’re lucky to have me all this crap. So the woman will often minimize, and even if it’s– There’s degrees of abuse, obviously, right? Like, you know, there’s degrees from someone who’s like, just maybe just puts you down a little bit, says something, you know, actually, like killing you. So, but in all of it, it’s valid. Like if you’re feeling a certain way, like those are valid feelings. And I would let women know it doesn’t get better. It actually only gets worse. So minimizing happens, the guy does it to the woman, and you do it to your– women do it to themselves. They’re in denial a lot of times, but I would, I would advise anyone thinking that to just get hold of this Power and Control Wheel. Look on our website, FindingOurVoices.net. Look at all the wheels that the women have filled out. Just go around that circle and see if see how many things that you can identify to understand, you know, what situation you’re in.
Liz Sumner
Excellent. And I will put that in the show notes as well. So what resources would you direct people to?
Patrisha McLean
Well, the first thing I would suggest is visit our website, which is finding our voices dotnet. And if you go on the homepage, it says sister survivors click here. You can see 36 women, their faces and a quote and if you click on to their face, you can find– most of them– you could hear their story. You could you–there’s an audio of them telling you what happened to them, and plus documentation of what they went through. And I think that’s a superb education about what happens. And just so that you just to know that you’re not alone. And then beyond that, most places should have domestic abuse agencies, where you can call. With COVID now, sometimes you can’t go in person, but you can call an advocate, domestic abuse victim advocate and talk to them about what you’re feeling. And if you’re afraid or feeling controlled, and they understand you know, and believe you. And then I’ll also just say something, you know, if you’re, if you’re in a relationship doesn’t feel right, say something to someone, you know, someone that someone, a friend, a family member, and if you’re on the other end of it, and someone says something to you about it, you know, listen, don’t judge, let the person know that you’re there for them, that you’re always there, you know, and check in on them and let them know that they’re valuable and that you care.
Liz Sumner
Beautiful. So for domestic abuse, you would just Google something in your neighborhood? How are they listed?
Patrisha McLean
So violence against women, domestic abuse advocacy, help for domestic abuse victims, I guess that’s where you would start. And there’s there’s bound to be one, hopefully, in your town, but not in your town and in your, in your region. And I did want to just say that, the big misconception out there, the biggest one is that domestic abuse is physical abuse. I think that one of the reasons I never considered myself a victim of domestic abuse is I associated domestic abuse with a woman with a black eye. And I had never had a black eye. I mean, I had bruises. And you know, but I never had a black eye. But emotional abuse, like one of the things that if we can accomplish this, so that woman in Maine, do not say when the when the term domestic abuse comes up, “well, he never hit me.” But emotional abuse is devastating. Abuse is abuse, it doesn’t need to be physical. And actually, emotional abuse causes physical distress because your body you can’t withstand– a person can’t withstand trauma, the constant trauma of you know, being put down by someone who’s saying they love them, and being controlled and walking on eggshells, and not have physical ramifications from that. So it is actually physical, even when, when it’s emotional, because you’re going to be, you know, stressed and it’s going to come out and other ways about impairing your your physical health.
Liz Sumner
Wow, I really am grateful for all this information and for the work that you do. Is there anything that you’d like to say in conclusion,
Patrisha McLean
I would like to thank you very much for devoting this show to this issue. The key is talking about it and having conversations and that’s what we’ve done here. And I love the questions you asked and being so open. I’m really glad it never happened to you. And I’m glad that you’re providing this platform so that other women can recognize, avoid, safely leave, and heal just like we’re doing in find our voices at find our voices. dotnet.
Liz Sumner
Thank you. My thanks to Patricia McLean. You can find out more about finding our voices dotnet in the show notes. I invite everyone to write and tell me what you’ve always wanted to try. I’m Liz Sumner, reminding you to be bold, and thanks for listening.